At the end of the novel, what was the effect of forgetting Beloved and almost saying that it is not a story to pass on to future generations. I think that the way in which the novel ended is comparing the years of forced silence and ignoring what truly happened during the slave era. In an attempt to forget the troubles of the past, many people were silenced and to this day, we do not talk about the past of the United States as much as we should. Toni Morrison wanted to involve this issue by making the novel end this way. We could also see this in other places in the novel such as the chapter when the slave girl was on the ship.
I like how you connected this part of the novel to a larger point Morrison is trying to make about our world. I think there's also a parallel between this and the rest of the book, with how Sethe and Paul D tried to forget their past and not deal with it. You see this especially with Paul D's latched tobacco tin, but even with Sethe's immense relief at her belief that she wouldn't have to rememory what happened in the shed anymore once she "found out" Beloved was her dead daughter. In a way, the characters in the book are repeating the mistakes of the past by continuing to ignore the past.
Did Beloved’s disappearance spark Paul D’s return to 124 or would he have eventually came back to Sethe, regardless of Beloved?
I thought it was interesting to note that once Denver reached out to the community again and people had come back to 124 for the first time ever since the killing of the daughter, Beloved had seemingly vanished. The community coming together again facilitated Beloved’s disappearance and therefore, allowed Sethe to close that major issue of her past. The novel ends with the community almost entirely forgetting Beloved, further proving the idea that Sethe and Paul D now have the ability to have a real future together.
I was wondering why Toni Morrison made Beloved pregnant with what can only be Paul D's baby. I was wondering how this furthered the plot and symbolism in the book. For me, it seems a bit open ended? What's the reason?
Paul D thinking about the feelings he had towards Sethe, and how she was kind to him and his worst moments and how she drove him crazy, reminded him of how Sixo described the Thirty-Mile-Woman. I liked how this was when he realized he loved Sethe and how he decided there that they both deserved a future because they both have "got more yesterday than anybody. We need some kind of tomorrow"(322). I thought this was the perfect resolution of their relationship.
Similar to what another classmate had said, the ironic ending caught my attention. The story closes with 124's loneliness and the townspeople moving forward from the recent events involving Beloved running away and Sethe going "crazy." Over time, main characters Sethe, Paul D, and Denver, eventually forget about her and finally move forward to continue their lives. The line "This is not a story to pass on," demonstrates how Morrison ironically uses this novel (passing on the story) as a way to communicate this message. I thought this ending left a memorable impact which uniquely tied together major themes of the passage (dwelling on the past, struggling to move forward) to speak a greater message to the audience, and at the same time highlight how the past is still something important to learn and grow from.
I didn't even notice the irony in ending the story which Morrison has written with the idea that it isn't a story to pass on, but now that you mention it, it's a very interesting observation. It's fascinating that Morrison did this, and I think your theory makes a lot of sense.
When Mr. Bodwin arrives at 124 to pick up Denver for work, Sethe decides attack him with an ice pick, mistaking him for school teacher. I find it interesting Sethe chose to confront the "school teacher" instead of making the decision to kill her daughter with a handsaw as she did in the past. However, despite her efforts to protect her daughter, she ultimately loses Beloved. What does this show about Sethe's development as an individual? What does Beloved fleeing show about how little her has changed? What parallels do you see between this moment and the time the school teacher arrived?
That's really interesting. Going for the white man instead of Beloved shows her character growth in some way. That now she wants so badly to be with her daughter she will do anything she can to stay with her.
I figured that the novel had to either finish with a bang or in total silence, I suppose we got both. Following Sethe's attempted murder of Mr. Bodwin and the disappearance of a pregnant and ever growing Beloved the novels feels as if all and nothing is rectified. We get the closure of a future for Sethe, Denver and Paul D, but there is always those questions: Where is Beloved? What is she? I think really the question I'm left with are more to the effect of how. How did she shape the people of the town? How did her existence become un-existence in a sense? Why?
The end of Beloved completely subverted my expectations as to how the story would conclude, but i should have expected something as deeply layered as it was, especially from Toni Morrison. Reading the effect that Beloved was having on Sethe, the speed in which she caused her to lose her mind, was somewhat disturbing. It leaves me not knowing who I was supposed to be rooting for, looking back on how the book began.
One question I have is, is the “naked women” who is seen running away from 124 Beloved? Why did she leave Sethe again?
Where does Beloved go? How do both of the two narratives apply to her disappearance at the conclusion?
Something that worked well in this book was the fact that there really wasn't a "main character". At different times in the plot Sethe, Denver, Beloved, Paul D., Baby Suggs, or even Stamp Paid would take on the spotlight as the main character. It helped because in this story nobody was infallible. Each character spent some time as a protagonist, some time as an antagonist. Much like real life, this story didn't have all-around heroes, nor did it have all-around villains.
Even though Beloved is gone and mostly forgotten, what kind of impact did she make on the characters?
I enjoyed reading Denver becoming a more independent woman. Denver has really developed as a character throughout the book, being very closed at the start and now starting to come out of her shell. I think Sethe's decline is what accelerates Denver's growth and maturity. Once unable to leave 124, it is Denver's duty to step outside into the real world to help her mother. It was interesting to watch Denver's character development throughout the novel.
What is the significance of Beloved's pregnancy? She had become grown to acting exactly like Sethe, and perhaps Beloved running away pregnant from 124 has some connection to Sethe running away from Sweet home pregnant with Denver.
I thought Denver's role is this section was integral. Before we viewed Denver as the "present" and Paul D as the future, however I believe that Denver had taken over that role. Around Beloved's, Sethe is still miserably rummaging through her past to a point of present weakness. Denver's bravery to leave the house to find the Bowdoin family, opens the door to a future, where she is no longer tortured by the memories of slavery (which I thought Beloved brought)
Will Seth recover completely from the disappearance of Beloved.
Beloved has been be an essential aspect of this novel from beginning to end. She has made a significant impact on the lives of Sethe and Denver, and now Paul D. Now that she has gone, I wonder if Sethe will remember her for the good and move on. Sethe had avoiding the topic of her past, but the sudden appearance forced her to do so. Will Sethe move on?
Even if Beloved has left 124, is her presence truly absent in their lives now?
In the last chapter, the mysterious, disappearing footprints make me feel like Beloved's presence is still around and she will continue to have an impact in the characters' lives. Although nobody says her name anymore, the things she represents will never go away. Even though it is said that this story is not one to pass one, her story involves many stories within one, hinting that we will never know the entire story of Beloved.
One thing that really stood out to me was how Denver matured in the ending and was out working to help Sethe. She never left 124 in the beginning of the novel but now she is going out and no longer focused on everything that happened in the past, she is more focused on the future. Paul D has a new respect for Denver once he returns to 124 because he also sees how much Denver has matured even since he left the house. I think that the maturity was driven by Beloved and the way Denver saw Beloved act.
How does Sethe being the motherly figure and the three women forming the holy trinity play a role in the story?
What is the significance of Ella in the story? If the book is an allegory, what does Ella and her actions at 124 represent?
Although a lot happened in the final pages of the novel, I have to applaud the determination and maturity of Denver in the last section. Whether because of the treatment of her mother, or the lack of food and supplies in the home, Denver separates herself from Beloved. She learns that her attachment to Beloved is not reciprocated and understands that it does not matter if Beloved is her sister or not at this point Denver ventures out of the home, finds work, and establishes a lifestyle of her own.
I really like your analysis of Denver's growth in the last part of the novel. I completely agree with your point about Denver separating herself from Beloved. As for your question, I am not entirely sure what Ella represents either. However, I find it interesting that Ella had also been kept by a father-son duo for sexual satisfactions the same way Beloved might have been, but has turned out much more mature and capable than Beloved has. It has also been repeated that Ella firmly believes that the past shouldn't be allowed to attack the present. In these two major ways, Ella is the opposite of Beloved. However, I'm not sure how this helps us figure out what Ella represents.
How does Denver’s behavior in the conclusion of the novel show her growth and Beloved’s impact on her?
Towards the end of the novel, we see Denver go out on her own and enlist the help of the community to care for her mother and sister. We can also see her maturity when see speaks with Paul D, a character she previously did not get along with. She presents herself with more decorum and is able to have a civil conversation with him unlike before. Denver is also beginning to step out of her comfort zone and work for and learn from Miss Bodwin. In my opinion, Denver had the largest character arch in the novel.
One question I have for this section is what happened to Sethe after the scene where she tried to kill Mr. Bowdin? We know that Beloved disappeared during this moment. How did Sethe react at the immediate point when she didn't see Beloved? I was really glad nobody got killed in this section of the book. I was so sure that with the way things were going, there would have to be at least one death in the book, and probably more. Although this is still a somewhat melancholy ending, I was expecting a full on tragic ending, and so I am really happy with this ending.
Although I did not have questions per se, I merely had recurring observations. The response to Beloved as "She was wild game, and nobody said, Get on out of here, girl, and come back when you get some sense… Honour thy mother and father that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." (258) gave a sense of a regressing creature built and driven by instinct. Again, the impact that "And no one, nobody on this earth, would list her daughter’s characteristics on the animal side of the paper. No. Oh no. Maybe Baby Suggs could worry about it, live with the likelihood of it; Sethe had refused—and refused still. This and much more Denver heard her say from her corner chair, trying to persuade Beloved, the one and only person she felt she had to convince, that what she had done was right because it came from true love." (258) harkens back to the notion of the "shared" Holy Trinity. So while the (dynamic) trio is down to two, how does with Beloved either/both a ghost/spiritual being or that of a traumatised girl. Yet now having read Beloved in its entirety, at the end of it all, the real question is how love be given and love is received when Beloved is properly able to move on?
At the end of the novel, what was the effect of forgetting Beloved and almost saying that it is not a story to pass on to future generations.
ReplyDeleteI think that the way in which the novel ended is comparing the years of forced silence and ignoring what truly happened during the slave era. In an attempt to forget the troubles of the past, many people were silenced and to this day, we do not talk about the past of the United States as much as we should. Toni Morrison wanted to involve this issue by making the novel end this way. We could also see this in other places in the novel such as the chapter when the slave girl was on the ship.
I like how you connected this part of the novel to a larger point Morrison is trying to make about our world. I think there's also a parallel between this and the rest of the book, with how Sethe and Paul D tried to forget their past and not deal with it. You see this especially with Paul D's latched tobacco tin, but even with Sethe's immense relief at her belief that she wouldn't have to rememory what happened in the shed anymore once she "found out" Beloved was her dead daughter. In a way, the characters in the book are repeating the mistakes of the past by continuing to ignore the past.
DeleteDid Beloved’s disappearance spark Paul D’s return to 124 or would he have eventually came back to Sethe, regardless of Beloved?
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting to note that once Denver reached out to the community again and people had come back to 124 for the first time ever since the killing of the daughter, Beloved had seemingly vanished. The community coming together again facilitated Beloved’s disappearance and therefore, allowed Sethe to close that major issue of her past. The novel ends with the community almost entirely forgetting Beloved, further proving the idea that Sethe and Paul D now have the ability to have a real future together.
I was wondering why Toni Morrison made Beloved pregnant with what can only be Paul D's baby. I was wondering how this furthered the plot and symbolism in the book. For me, it seems a bit open ended? What's the reason?
ReplyDeletePaul D thinking about the feelings he had towards Sethe, and how she was kind to him and his worst moments and how she drove him crazy, reminded him of how Sixo described the Thirty-Mile-Woman. I liked how this was when he realized he loved Sethe and how he decided there that they both deserved a future because they both have "got more yesterday than anybody. We need some kind of tomorrow"(322). I thought this was the perfect resolution of their relationship.
Similar to what another classmate had said, the ironic ending caught my attention. The story closes with 124's loneliness and the townspeople moving forward from the recent events involving Beloved running away and Sethe going "crazy." Over time, main characters Sethe, Paul D, and Denver, eventually forget about her and finally move forward to continue their lives. The line "This is not a story to pass on," demonstrates how Morrison ironically uses this novel (passing on the story) as a way to communicate this message. I thought this ending left a memorable impact which uniquely tied together major themes of the passage (dwelling on the past, struggling to move forward) to speak a greater message to the audience, and at the same time highlight how the past is still something important to learn and grow from.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Morrison end with this irony? (assuming that my theory is far off)
DeleteI didn't even notice the irony in ending the story which Morrison has written with the idea that it isn't a story to pass on, but now that you mention it, it's a very interesting observation. It's fascinating that Morrison did this, and I think your theory makes a lot of sense.
DeleteWhen Mr. Bodwin arrives at 124 to pick up Denver for work, Sethe decides attack him with an ice pick, mistaking him for school teacher. I find it interesting Sethe chose to confront the "school teacher" instead of making the decision to kill her daughter with a handsaw as she did in the past. However, despite her efforts to protect her daughter, she ultimately loses Beloved.
ReplyDeleteWhat does this show about Sethe's development as an individual? What does Beloved fleeing show about how little her has changed? What parallels do you see between this moment and the time the school teacher arrived?
That's really interesting. Going for the white man instead of Beloved shows her character growth in some way. That now she wants so badly to be with her daughter she will do anything she can to stay with her.
DeleteI figured that the novel had to either finish with a bang or in total silence, I suppose we got both. Following Sethe's attempted murder of Mr. Bodwin and the disappearance of a pregnant and ever growing Beloved the novels feels as if all and nothing is rectified. We get the closure of a future for Sethe, Denver and Paul D, but there is always those questions: Where is Beloved? What is she? I think really the question I'm left with are more to the effect of how. How did she shape the people of the town? How did her existence become un-existence in a sense? Why?
ReplyDeleteThe end of Beloved completely subverted my expectations as to how the story would conclude, but i should have expected something as deeply layered as it was, especially from Toni Morrison. Reading the effect that Beloved was having on Sethe, the speed in which she caused her to lose her mind, was somewhat disturbing. It leaves me not knowing who I was supposed to be rooting for, looking back on how the book began.
ReplyDeleteOne question I have is, is the “naked women” who is seen running away from 124 Beloved? Why did she leave Sethe again?
Where does Beloved go? How do both of the two narratives apply to her disappearance at the conclusion?
ReplyDeleteSomething that worked well in this book was the fact that there really wasn't a "main character". At different times in the plot Sethe, Denver, Beloved, Paul D., Baby Suggs, or even Stamp Paid would take on the spotlight as the main character. It helped because in this story nobody was infallible. Each character spent some time as a protagonist, some time as an antagonist. Much like real life, this story didn't have all-around heroes, nor did it have all-around villains.
Even though Beloved is gone and mostly forgotten, what kind of impact did she make on the characters?
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading Denver becoming a more independent woman. Denver has really developed as a character throughout the book, being very closed at the start and now starting to come out of her shell. I think Sethe's decline is what accelerates Denver's growth and maturity. Once unable to leave 124, it is Denver's duty to step outside into the real world to help her mother. It was interesting to watch Denver's character development throughout the novel.
What is the significance of Beloved's pregnancy? She had become grown to acting exactly like Sethe, and perhaps Beloved running away pregnant from 124 has some connection to Sethe running away from Sweet home pregnant with Denver.
ReplyDeleteI thought Denver's role is this section was integral. Before we viewed Denver as the "present" and Paul D as the future, however I believe that Denver had taken over that role. Around Beloved's, Sethe is still miserably rummaging through her past to a point of present weakness. Denver's bravery to leave the house to find the Bowdoin family, opens the door to a future, where she is no longer tortured by the memories of slavery (which I thought Beloved brought)
Will Seth recover completely from the disappearance of Beloved.
ReplyDeleteBeloved has been be an essential aspect of this novel from beginning to end. She has made a significant impact on the lives of Sethe and Denver, and now Paul D. Now that she has gone, I wonder if Sethe will remember her for the good and move on. Sethe had avoiding the topic of her past, but the sudden appearance forced her to do so. Will Sethe move on?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEven if Beloved has left 124, is her presence truly absent in their lives now?
ReplyDeleteIn the last chapter, the mysterious, disappearing footprints make me feel like Beloved's presence is still around and she will continue to have an impact in the characters' lives. Although nobody says her name anymore, the things she represents will never go away. Even though it is said that this story is not one to pass one, her story involves many stories within one, hinting that we will never know the entire story of Beloved.
Emma Joel
ReplyDeleteOne thing that really stood out to me was how Denver matured in the ending and was out working to help Sethe. She never left 124 in the beginning of the novel but now she is going out and no longer focused on everything that happened in the past, she is more focused on the future. Paul D has a new respect for Denver once he returns to 124 because he also sees how much Denver has matured even since he left the house. I think that the maturity was driven by Beloved and the way Denver saw Beloved act.
How does Sethe being the motherly figure and the three women forming the holy trinity play a role in the story?
What is the significance of Ella in the story? If the book is an allegory, what does Ella and her actions at 124 represent?
ReplyDeleteAlthough a lot happened in the final pages of the novel, I have to applaud the determination and maturity of Denver in the last section. Whether because of the treatment of her mother, or the lack of food and supplies in the home, Denver separates herself from Beloved. She learns that her attachment to Beloved is not reciprocated and understands that it does not matter if Beloved is her sister or not at this point Denver ventures out of the home, finds work, and establishes a lifestyle of her own.
DeleteI really like your analysis of Denver's growth in the last part of the novel. I completely agree with your point about Denver separating herself from Beloved. As for your question, I am not entirely sure what Ella represents either. However, I find it interesting that Ella had also been kept by a father-son duo for sexual satisfactions the same way Beloved might have been, but has turned out much more mature and capable than Beloved has. It has also been repeated that Ella firmly believes that the past shouldn't be allowed to attack the present. In these two major ways, Ella is the opposite of Beloved. However, I'm not sure how this helps us figure out what Ella represents.
How does Denver’s behavior in the conclusion of the novel show her growth and Beloved’s impact on her?
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of the novel, we see Denver go out on her own and enlist the help of the community to care for her mother and sister. We can also see her maturity when see speaks with Paul D, a character she previously did not get along with. She presents herself with more decorum and is able to have a civil conversation with him unlike before. Denver is also beginning to step out of her comfort zone and work for and learn from Miss Bodwin. In my opinion, Denver had the largest character arch in the novel.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOne question I have for this section is what happened to Sethe after the scene where she tried to kill Mr. Bowdin? We know that Beloved disappeared during this moment. How did Sethe react at the immediate point when she didn't see Beloved?
ReplyDeleteI was really glad nobody got killed in this section of the book. I was so sure that with the way things were going, there would have to be at least one death in the book, and probably more. Although this is still a somewhat melancholy ending, I was expecting a full on tragic ending, and so I am really happy with this ending.
Although I did not have questions per se, I merely had recurring observations. The response to Beloved as "She was wild game, and nobody said, Get on out of here, girl, and come back when you get some sense… Honour thy mother and father that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." (258) gave a sense of a regressing creature built and driven by instinct. Again, the impact that "And no one, nobody on this earth, would list her daughter’s characteristics on the animal side of the paper. No. Oh no. Maybe Baby Suggs could worry about it, live with the likelihood of it; Sethe had refused—and refused still. This and much more Denver heard her say from her corner chair, trying to persuade Beloved, the one and only person she felt she had to convince, that what she had done was right because it came from true love." (258) harkens back to the notion of the "shared" Holy Trinity. So while the (dynamic) trio is down to two, how does with Beloved either/both a ghost/spiritual being or that of a traumatised girl. Yet now having read Beloved in its entirety, at the end of it all, the real question is how love be given and love is received when Beloved is properly able to move on?
ReplyDelete