Assignment: When have you experienced Ghosts in your lives? Think back on your lives. Look at the decisions and experiences. Where have voices from the past impacted your decisions? Have there been times when you could not tell if you believed something to be true, or that you were supposed to believe? Think about the news. Do you see ghosts "in between the lines of the newspaper." In this blog space, please share these experiences. Begin your post with 1-2 direct quotations from Ghosts that match the feelings you are sharing, so we can see the direct parallels and engage with the text.
Ghosts by Henik Ibsen (Parts 1-4)
“Only most people either don't formulate it to themselves, or else keep quiet about it.”
ReplyDelete“No one to live for any more.”
When thinking about ghosts in society, I realize there's more ‘ghosts’ then one may think. Through the media, politics, and personal experiences, it is evident that we can never truly escape ghosts of the past and present. As talked about in the play Ghosts, the idea of stereotypes and expressing one’s own opinion is important to the concept of our own ghosts. Based off what we hear about people or ideas, we form opinions from ideas that we did not experience ourselves. This relates strongly with the argument Oswald and Pastor Mander’s discuss with stereotypes vs real life experiences. I believe we still struggle with these ‘ghosts,’ or stereotypes, in society today. Another ghost that I’ve seen is the idea of women being expected to do everything or expected to make the husband happy. This idea is touched on in both plays, with Nora and Torvald and Ms. Alving and Captain Alving. I think it’s an important one to be aware of, as it’s something that although we have worked to change, it can still be seen in present society at times. Sometimes men are not given these same expectations in regards to their wife/family. The idea that women must stay with their husband, make him happy, and raise their kids, is one that comes from the past but still lingers amongst society today.
Last year in Lang, we did a project where we investigated gender bias in commercials, and your blog post reminds me a lot of that project. When our group looked at cleaning commercials for a specific brand (I forget which one it was), we found the 4 recent commercials from the company, and all of them showed women doing the cleaning. This project made me realize that despite all the progress we've made in terms of gender equality, we are still, as you talked about in you blog post, dealing with the ghost of gender roles.
Delete“For that is the wonderful part of it, Pastor Minders--there is really nothing new in these books, nothing but what most people think and believe. “
ReplyDelete“It is not only what we have inherited from our father and mother that "walks" in us. It is all sorts of dead ideas, and lifeless old beliefs, and so forth. They have no vitality, but they cling to us all the same, and we cannot shake them off.”
I think a sad but powerful example that I’ve seen over and over is the ghost of mental illness. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen my friends and family go through hard times when their brain is telling them they aren’t enough, but then watched those same people turn around to help others going through the same thing. Watching people tell others how worth it they are, but not being able to actually listen to the same advice for themselves. Another example is substance abuse. I’m seen people who come from very toxic and substance filled backgrounds who have sworn up and down how terrible drugs or alcohol is, but then defaulted back to it on their own because it’s all they know. It’s very similar to the whole idea of Oswald, being so similar to his father without knowing it or cursing the idea of being an unfaithful father while not knowing the character of his own father. In some regard, I think ghosts tend to stick around for so long because the people mimicking the past are blind to the fact they’re reliving it, like where Oswald was unaware of how similar his experience was to his father's. I’ve definitely seen people who may even be aware of the thing that they’re mirroring, but coming to realize that they too are doing that thing is outside of their awareness. We do not see ourselves the same way we see those who we dislike though we may be doing the same things because we don’t wish to admit the sad truth about the situations we’re placed in. We don’t want to talk about the reasons that we do things and the experiences that have brought us to act in such ways, we only want to pretend That’s the tragedy of ghosts, they aren’t seen and they aren’t heard, they just float in and out of our experiences, manipulating our actions.
I really liked this post. I thought your comments about how we revert to things we know, even if we know they are not things we should be doing, simply because they are all we know, was really on point and wise. Furthermore, what you said about ghosts sticking around because people don't know they're mimicking the past matches well with populations as well as individuals. It's said that history repeats itself, and a lot of times, this is because we as a group forget the lessons of our history, and this allows us to keep from facing and defeating the ghosts that haunt us.
Delete“By a "home" I understand the home of a family, where a man lives with his wife and children.” -Pastor Manders
ReplyDelete“And in what state of mind has he returned to you? Bethink yourself well, Mrs. Alving. You sinned greatly against your husband;—that you recognise by raising yonder memorial to him” -Pastor Manders to Mrs. Alving
Everybody has a conscience, a voice that enforces your morals when making a decision. The difference between people depends on how strong this voice is, or if they are going to listen to it. Along with a conscience, it is in our human nature to learn from the past. Whether is was a mistake or something that was rewarded, human behavior tends to find familiarity using past occurrences. Not only do we base current decisions of the past, but this also applies to past events. For example, America has always had an issue with stereotypes. It can involve race, religion, gender, and many other things. Stereotypes are a form of ghosts. Before we experience anything, we have preconceived notions of how it is going to be or what is going to happen. We would think it looked different if a man was on a cleaning commercial. Pastor Manders uses stereotypes to decide whether something is right or not. He does not consider anything to be a home unless a man is living with his wife and children. This is just one example of stereotypes at play. There have been many times when I believed something to be true without sufficient information. It happens to everyone all of the time. We form opinions on people without knowing who they are. We can base these opinions based on how they look or simply just things that we have heard about them. In the news, ghosts are constantly being used because of how our news is depicted. We never know what the complete truth is, even when reading multiple sources. Every news source has a bias that leans towards one direction. Bias incorporates stereotypes which further involves the concept of ghosts. There is no escaping them because they impact our everyday lives.
I liked what you said about stereotypes. I think you pinned down a really important problem. society sorts people into categories, stereotypes, and if someone breaks free of that stereotype, society gets angry, just like Pastor Manders got angry when Mrs. Alving left her husband. This is a really great post and it got me thinking.
Delete“Excuse me, Pastor: I know you can't take my point of view; but I couldn't help speaking out” (Oswald).
ReplyDelete“Well, I mean people in such independent and influential positions that one cannot help attaching some weight to their opinions” (Pastor Manders).
Just as Pastor Manders protects how his society regards him, we do the same. Whether it be Mr. Pellerin’s example of how US Representative Ilhan Omar is being called anti-semitic over a political tweet about Israel or Bea’s example about mental illness, society tends to judge and jump to conclusions too abruptly. I tend to believe that incidences like that of Ilhan Omar is in an effort to denounce racism. Nonetheless, although with good intentions, I think that many politicians are being influenced by ‘ghosts.’ These ghosts are to further their own agenda, and public opinion, and to truly rid real, racist ideals from America, especially from a representative. However, although the tweets were inappropriate, these ghosts are blinding everyone what the truth; Representative Omar made a mistake and should not be falsely labeled as a racist. One instance of ghosts influencing my own life is my experiences in the college process. I personally believe that with the right work-ethic and talent anyone can go to any school they want. After the recent college admissions scandal, my naive belief was refuted. The rich cheat their way into college. Athletes and legacy students get priority. And, ultimately, the college process at times seems rigged. This idea of ghost is interesting. It’s about what we believe and what we want to believe. It’s about the perceived truth and the real truth.
I had a similar experience regarding my view of college when I read the book The Price of Admission, by Daniel Golden. It basically talked about a lot of the things that we are discussing currently, excluding the part about kids cheating on tests, and if you're interested in a more detailed look into these, I'd recommend it.
Delete"Oh, what must be, must be. If Oswald takes after his father, I take after my mother, I daresay."
ReplyDeleteWhat I thought was really interesting about this play is the instantaneous switch in Regina's outward attitude after finding out the truth about her mother. It's as if as soon as she finds out that her mother was a "fallen woman"(I don't really like that description but I'm trying to keep with what the play uses), her expectations for herself fall, and her behavior changes to match up with her changed expectations of herself. This idea of our expectations of ourselves being tied to our parents, and this having an effect on our behaviors is something that relates a lot to my life now that I think about it. For instance, both of my parents were college graduates who work professional white-collar jobs, and this has caused me to internalize the expectation that I would also go to college and get a white collar job. I've never even seriously considered not going to college, and this expectation that I've had for myself has caused me to take school seriously. By contrast, earlier this year I met a classmate for who neither of her parents had gone to college, and this is the expectation she had set for herself without even thinking much about it. Our parents' lives were ghosts affecting both of our lives, just as Regina's mother's life is a ghost in her life.
I really liked how you were able to connect Regina's change in mindset to your own life. I agree that sometimes people raise or lower their own goals based on their parents or others around them, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously.
DeleteI agree with the fact that our parents often set educational expectations for us when we're younger. I too have parents who went to college, and the expectation is for me to attend college as well. Conversely, a family of plumbers might expect their children to take up the family plumbing business. Ultimately, I believe that our parents have the best of intentions for us. In the end, it should be up to the child to decide if college is right for them.
DeleteI really like how you talked about the expectations of going to college and getting a white collar job, like your parents. I feel like this is very common in Andover especially, and most people feel this same expectation to go to college to please their parents. Furthermore, I feel like society around us expects most of us to go to college and if you dont, people sometimes think that maybe you weren't 'smart' enough to go or your 'lazy.' I think society still struggles to accept people not going to college, especially without forming negative stereotypes around the idea.
DeleteI definitely agree with the part about all the stereotypes surrounding people who don't go to college. It is something I used to do too, simply because that was the idea ingrained in me by our society, and as I've gotten more aware of it over time, I've been working on trying to combat my own stereotypes surrounding people who don't go to college.
Delete“Object to in them? You surely do not suppose that I have nothing better to do than to study such publications as these? … I have read enough about these writings to disapprove of them.”
ReplyDelete“They have no vitality, but they cling to us all the same, and we cannot shake them off. Whenever I take up a newspaper, I seem to see ghosts gliding between the lines. There must be ghosts all the country over,”
When we first started talking about ghosts, I thought about a friend of mine. She’s a very kind and gentle person. She loves spending time with kids, and she is very anti-violence. She also disliked conflict, or arguing with other people in general. It really surprised me when I learned that she was pro-gun.
She just didn’t seem like the type, but whenever a conversation around her gets on the topic of guns, she fights whole-heartedly, pro-gun.
I noticed whenever she argues, however, she always says the same thing, like she’s reciting from a script. Which makes me think she isn’t actually pro-gun, she is just surrounded by people who are, and those ghosts haunt her throughout her life.
I feel like, if she did the necessary research, and looked at the problem from all perspectives, she would be anti-gun. She hates violence, even in books, I don’t see how she could truly be a gun lobbyist.
It’s like Pastor Mandors, saying he didn’t need to read the books Mrs. Alving had to object to them. That he had read enough on about them to know he disapproved.
This mentality is really how politics works in this country. People don’t read the initial laws put in place, they read columns about the initial logs. Our education is skewed based on simple things such as which news network our parents watch. What our home computer’s search bar thought our parents would want. Even if our parents aren’t trying to persuade us one way or another, we are more likely to follow them because they set the atmosphere of the entire home. We only read what they read, we only watch what they watch.
I found it really interesting how you related ideas from Ghost with someone else you knew. It got me thinking about some of the people I know and how they might react differently to controversial ideas too.
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ReplyDelete“It's not only what we have inherited from our father and mother that walks in us. It's all sorts of dead ideas, and lifeless old beliefs, and so forth. They have no vitality, but they cling to us all the same, and we can't get rid of them.”
ReplyDeleteLanguage has allowed humans to pass knowledge to those around us at an intricacy level unlike most other organisms. Although from afar humans have been able to evolve forwardly because of language, closer examination shows it has also hindered the simplicities in life. What may seem like a straightforward decision can actually be a multilayered labyrinth. Each person carries pieces of their parents and pieces their parents carried. Along with this weight, people also walk with what they’ve picked up in the words, structures and experiences around them. This heaviness cloaks people in a way that can’t be seen, but can be felt.
In Ghosts, Mrs. Alving is focused on how others view her and her family rather than her and her family’s internal health and happiness. This causes her to stay with her husband despite his infidelity. To someone like me who is only eighteen, it seems like the complete wrong decision. But, with her heavier cloak of experience and pressure, Mrs. Alving made the decision to stay with her husband and send her son to boarding school based not off her own desires but based off of public image and peace. She desires approval from her peers, approval that helps her escape from her private struggles. This in turn dampens her relationship with her son, who believes his mother didn’t love him enough to keep him at home. As Mrs. Alving expends so much energy maintaining her outward form, her internal form crumbles. As worrying as it is, I do see parts of myself in Mrs. Alving. Although I don’t think I would go to the extreme efforts she made in her life, I do worry about disappointing and failing those around me. The pressure to be the best version of myself is one I believed I have obtained not from my parents, but from the ghosts in society that have entered my head. There’s this surface level encouragement to try new things and learn from mistakes but sometimes underneath it all I feel like there’s little room for error. Rationally, I know imperfections are inevitable and actually vital in learning, but somehow when they become a real possibility, I try my very best to avoid them. This adds complications in parts of my life I know should be simple. Sometimes, this makes me a very private person, which in turn puts a slight distance between me and the people I care about the most. These complicated emotions and situations stems from language of ghosts spoken long ago. This kind of societal pressure is felt by many, many people over many, many generations.
Experiencing “Ghosts” is almost like knowing a hidden truth; filling up the water cup with Sprite or maybe going 80 mph on the highway are some familiar faces. Reading through the dialogue from Ghosts, by Henrik Ibsen, got me thinking about some of the more international or relatable examples that I have personally dealt with. As a student, Quote 11 stuck out to me, “When you forced me under the yoke of what you called duty and obligation… my whole soul rebelled against as something loathsome. I wanted only to pick at a single knot; but when I had got that undone, the whole thing ravelled out. And then I understood that it was all machine-sewn.” I felt that this quote reminded me of how students can tend to cheat their ways through assignments or entire courses. With many demanding classes on their hands, students can feel “forced under the yoke [of their] obligations” and have the incentive to rebel and eventually tip over the edge, or “pick at the knot.” This dishonest practice starts small and gradually unravels. Cheating is a very common Ghost in the academic world and isn’t deemed as morally wrong until someone is caught. When someone is caught, the concept of cheating is immediately put under dark light and the cheater is looked down upon, as if no other student has ever committed the same crime. Quote 15 ties in perfectly with this idea, “Here people are brought up to believe that work is a punishment for sin, and that life is something miserable…” I believe that this quote within itself reveals some truth behind academic dishonesty. Since some students struggle to see the positive aspect behind work, such as gaining intelligence, students will fail to find a point of motivation and do what they can to pass. Academic dishonesty has also been prevalent in the news recently with the college scam, and this current event demonstrates parallels with Ibsen’s Ghosts. It is truly no secret that wealthy families pay their ways into prestigious schools; it is only when the “secret” is out that it somehow starts to matter, and that regulations are put into place.
ReplyDelete11. Yes--when you forced me under the yoke of what you called duty and obligation; when you lauded as right and proper what my whole soul rebelled against as something loathsome. It was then that I began to look into the seams of your doctrines. I wanted only to pick at a single knot; but when I had got that undone, the whole thing ravelled out. And then I understood that it was all machine-sewn.
Delete15. I only mean that here people are brought up to believe that work is a curse and a punishment for sin, and that life is something miserable, something; it would be best to have done with, the sooner the better…But in the great world people won't hear of such things. There, nobody really believes such doctrines any longer. There, you feel it a positive bliss and ecstasy merely to draw the breath of life. Mother, have you noticed that everything I have painted has turned upon the joy of life?--always, always upon the joy of life?--light and sunshine and glorious air-and faces radiant with happiness. That is why I'm afraid of remaining at home with you.
“There is really nothing new in these books, nothing but what most people think and believe. Only most people either don't formulate it to themselves, or else keep quiet about it.”
ReplyDeleteThe quote above is from Mrs. Alving when she talks to Pastor Manders about the philosophy books she has been reading. He had expressed disapproval of her exploring such ideologies, any type of new age philosophy opposed to his traditional religious feelings. At the time when many of these new ideas were breaking out, I’m sure many conversations between friends and neighbors were haunted by “ghosts” where they weren’t able to accurately express their feelings because it could be deemed as unpopular. This obviously occurs today. I would argue in modern day America, the ghosts that haunt many of our conversations are more political than philosophical. Politics today are getting increasingly radical on both sides of the political spectrum. I have friends and members of my family who could be considered either far-left or far-right. In times like these, two people are bound to disagree somewhere. And rather than constantly argue with people you love, it’s often easier to talk around certain topics. Both of you are aware that it may be better not to tread on that conversational ground, it’s just left as a “ghost.”
“Well then, child of joy as he was--for he was like a child in those days--he had to live at home here in a half-grown town, which had no joys to offer him--only dissipations.”
ReplyDelete“Oh, not at all. A healthy lad is all the better for it; especially when he's an only child. He oughtn't to hang on at home with his mother and father, and get spoilt”
After reading ghosts I kept questioning whether each person is their own, growing to create their own personal ideas and if an individual were to deal with a different ghost than the one their parents dealt them with would these ideals and actions still remain the same.
The quotations above describe first a conscious decision Mr Alving made for her son to live away, and the second, the limitations imposed upon a young Captain Alving. I wonder if the Captain grew into a happy man or if Oswald grew up with his parents, if their lives would be drastically different, and not so tragically miserable.
While I try to find ways in my life to strengthen my spirituality, I have never really thought of myself as a religious individual. Yes, I was christened and my family would occasionally attended services on Christmas and Easter, but for most of my life I found that on Sunday mornings, while my sister and I watched cartoons, all of my friends would be at Sunday school, every single week. Vocabulary of the church feels like a foreign language. In movies and televisions shows a characters revelation or connection with God were often exaggerated and romanticized in a way that I could never understand or relate. I couldn't wrap my mind around one day perhaps a big bright light appearing in front of me and that a big bearded man from the sky was going to tell me how to live my life, what job I was going to pursue, how many babies I was going to have. Then in high school especially in history classes, the church was often the antagonist of the past and even the present. I found through other religions, that the worship of a superior being is not the most important lesson to learn I will never forget the terror I felt after watching “Spotlight” . I began to question how “God” could ever exist in a house that supported evil actions, stole, and lied to the people. I don’t know if I’m an atheist, I haven’t really thought about it mostly because I don’t think it matters. I focus less on what it takes to get to heaven and more on trying my best to be kind and being in the present. Ignore the harshness of sin, and always forgive myself and others unconditionally, as no one to me has been or will be perfect. However, what if I was brought up in a completely different perspective, if I was a deeply religious individual. Would I still have the same ideals, or felt the same way after those history classes or watching the disturbing movie?
MRS. ALVING. [Hoarsely.] Ghosts! The couple from the conservatory—risen again! A time in my life when I have experienced “ghosts” has been throughout my years as a student. My failure to fully engage myself into improving my math skills has been a hindrance since elementary school. Year after year I watch as my grade falls, and year after year I try and opt to bang my head against the wall and hope the knowledge come to me. It usually is not until my grade has fallen to a noticeable level that I reach out to my teachers or parents for help, provided they haven’t already approached me. This is the ghost that I’ve seen throughout my life, a constant reminder that I have always fallen short of being as independent as I hoped I could have been. Being around a father and two siblings which are very math proficient and driven, I have always seen good at math as a measure of intelligence and possible success in the future. The moments which haunt me more than anything is the recurring event of thinking that I finally learned my stuff, only to find that my confidently turned in math test lands a low 70, much like the ones I feel little confidence in. I can only hope that my college experience will be more forgiving and allow me to live and learn in a place free of my ghost.
ReplyDeleteMy freshmen year, math made me feel like a failure, and while my math skills have improved slightly throughout high school, it will never be a subject I am confident in. However, I learned that the type of math I was struggling with is only one type of math. I left my ghost by not taking calc and studying statistics instead. I found that math exists in all different places, and you don't always need obscure formulas to solve it.
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ReplyDeleteMRS. ALVING. But what about the truth?
ReplyDeleteMANDERS. But what about the ideals?
Just as Mrs. Alving and Pastor Manders brush upon, the truth is rarely what we declare are ideals. Ideals, standards of what is perfect or normal, are omnipresent. Whether in education, politics, beauty, or families, there is always a gap between what is expected versus what actually occurs. After reading these series of quotes, I felt that they applied perfectly to the fashion and beauty industry today. In the previous decades, executives, photoshop, and advertisements have shaped the ideal body for women into a very small box. Over time, women have voiced that this standard is not what women usually look and have started body positivity campaigns of their own. Even companies like Aerie have changed their entire brand so there is no use of photoshop nor alterations in their photos. Acceptance of your own body has started to become a new message in the industry. However, the ghosts of old standards of beauty linger and take different forms. While magazine ads and the runway used to have control, now it seems like technology has taken the wheel. Recently, Snapchat filters have been appealing to old standards of female beauty and reports of body dysmorphic disorder and teen plastic surgeries have risen. No matter how you view social media, it has been a new platform to broadcast ideals. Also, high fashion brands still idolize the one body type. Furthermore, although on the surface it may seem like we’re changing our ideals, the truth shows that society is still surrounded by ghosts. Poking at flaws of your own body and others is extremely common. It’s disturbing how integral this is to daily conversation.
“Just as you once disowned a wife's duty, so you have since disowned a mother's”
ReplyDelete“And your duty was to hold firmly to the man you had once chosen, and to whom you were bound by the holiest ties”
In Ghosts, we watched as Mrs. Alving took the ghosts of her husbands past and tried to protect her son. This quote stood out to me because when she is showing off how unharmed he is, she is trying to erase the ghosts of her husband who was so messed up. She has seen her husband ruin the life they had together, she had to send her son away to protect his image of his father, and she kept Regina even though it was the maid and her husbands child. One thing about society that never ends is the ghost of societal roles for women. Mrs. Alving took on everything for everyone and got zero credit. Today, in society men and women are still not equal. There is still a certain image that some people in society believe that women must look like. Even after everything that is happened the ghosts of the past. A woman has to be a good wife and a good mother and be able to take care of the house. Nowadays there aren’t as strict of standards but still, women are looked at weird if they don’t follow the same standards of marriage and having children. Pastor Manders deeply questioned Mrs. Alvings duty of being a wife and mother, when it was really Captain Alving who ruined the relationship. However, Pastor Manders does not put any of the blame on Captain Alving.
“By a "home" I understand the home of a family, where a man lives with his wife and children.”
ReplyDelete“Then it is illicit relations you are talking of! Irregular marriages, as people call them!”
“It is not only what we have inherited from our father and mother that "walks" in us. It is all sorts of dead ideas, and lifeless old beliefs, and so forth. They have no vitality, but they cling to us all the same, and we cannot shake them off.”
I was raised a Catholic. From an early age I went to church, took CCD classes, and got my First Communion and recently got Confirmed. I was pushed by my mom to do all these things, and I was certainly not nearly as motivated as her. I sort of just let it happen. I didn’t really care nor did I try to take an active part in my church community. From my early years of faith, I was often drilled to always do the right thing, as God is always watching. As I grew older, I could feel myself distancing myself further from my faith. There were times where I could feel myself doing the wrong thing, and sometimes I would think back to my early CCD classes, but not think much of it. Once I got Confirmed, I sort of re-engaged myself into my faith. There a times where there is an opportunity to cheat or take advantage during an assessment during class. I realize it is unfair to my classmates and I follow the rules. Nowadays, I have reconnected to my past Ghosts and now live everyday thinking of doing what is right always.
“When you forced me under the yoke of what you called duty and obligation… my whole soul rebelled against as something loathsome. I wanted only to pick at a single knot; but when I had got that undone, the whole thing ravelled out.” I have always had a Ghost in my life. A mandatory college education. I have never questioned, but I would often question why it was never as prevalent in my cousins’ lives. Although they were all raised by Nigerian parents, the outcomes of their lives were significantly contrasting from my own. The college education so desperately said to be needed was neither spoken about or even attempted to obtain. Many have stated that a college education was not for everyone. I had always believed that to be untrue, especially after seeing the outcome of not obtaining one by my cousins. With the presence of the ghost constantly present, I remain with the same thought.
ReplyDelete“It only shows how excessively careful one ought to be in judging one's fellow creatures. But what a heartfelt joy it is to ascertain that one has been mistaken! Don't you think so?”
ReplyDeleteAfter hearing another side to Mrs. Alving’s story of her husband, Pastor Manders insists that she must be mistaken and immediately takes the side he prefers, which is that of Jacob Engstrand. Back in the late 1800s when this play was written, women and men were not seen as equals. The opinions of women that differed from that of a man’s were not respected, making it hard for them to speak their mind and comfortably express their opinions. I find that to still be relevant in certain aspects of our lives today, showing that while this issue has evolved, we still revert back to our old ways. Earlier in the play while Pastor Manders and Oswald were having an argument, Mrs. Alving agreed with her son who had the less conservative opinion, but did not share this due to fear of being scrutinized by the pastor. Maintaining the image that society had painted for her was considered vital and is still something women struggle with today.